Dr. Rae: One of the things that we got to do this last season on Wild Kingdom Protecting the Wild was visit a place that’s really near to where I live in Southern California, but a place I’d actually never been to. It was The Channel Islands archipelago.
[Clip from show, season 1 episode 6 from times 1:50 to 2:05]
Rae: This is the only place, Peter, where you can find the island fox.
Peter: And each of the islands has a little different subspecies , so what we're going to see is unique just to Santa Cruz Island. I’m so looking forward to it.
Rae: I’m so pumped!
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Peter: After a little over an hour long boat ride we landed on Santa Cruz Island National Park and we have to just paint a picture for people of what this place looks and sounds like…It is so quiet!
Dr. Rae: Peter, I have to say our visit to the Channel Islands is one of my favorite memories of us together because we both kind of had this collective kind of dual moment of climbing to the top of this mountain. The production team asked us to hike up and then turn and look at the view and just express what we saw and I think before you and I were even able to say anything we just kind of gasped because it was so gorgeous.
Peter: So beautiful, so natural standing on the top of this mountain just hearing seagulls in the distance knowing there are waves crashing on the rocky coast below. It’s a scene I will never ever ever forget.
Dr. Rae: We went all the way out there to better understand the story of the Channel Island’s foxes.
Peter: I’m Peter Gros, wildlife expert and educator.
Dr. Rae: And I’m wildlife ecologist Dr. Rae Wynn Grant. This is Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom: The Podcast. Episode 6: A Fox Success Story.
Dr. Rae: These foxes— which are extremely cute– were originally brought to the Channel Islands by the native Chumash people who traditionally consider the fox wise and sacred. And actually, archeologists have found evidence of fox skeletons in ancient graves of the Chumash.
Peter: Nowadays most of the Channel Islands are uninhabited. No one lives on Santa Cruz island where we visited. But scientists and conservationists as well as the camping public do go there.
Rae: We set up camp for several nights and it was quite the adventure.
Nadya: You know, it's kind of funny that you, you know, call that an adventure? Cause me, that's just, you know, another day in the office.
Dr. Rae: Nadya Seal is a conservation and science associate at the Santa Barbara Zoo. I must say that I have never seen someone more prepared for an excursion than Nadya. Probably becasue part of her job she sometimes spends nights out on Santa Cruz Island monitoring the foxes.
Nadya: When I'm packing for the islands. And I'm doing four days out there, especially if I'm rotating, you know, over and over. I want to make sure that I'm not eating anything out of a package. I'm going to have my veggies, I'm going to have a cheese. I'm going to have a steak.
That's the only way to do it.
Peter: You heard that right. Steak.
Nadya: It's very nice when you have a husband that will make a tri tip for you to take to the.
Rae: There was a day. Nadia pulled out a steak and the rest of us were eating packaged rice. And I thought to myself...
Peter: Freeze dried rice.
Rae: Freeze dried rice, and I thought, oh, she's done this before.
Peter: Well, you had your gourmet coffee. Yeah, steak and some fresh greens. We looked.
Rae: Right. You had fresh vegetables.
Peter: You need to plan a little bit this time.
Dr. Rae: But we didn’t just invite Nadya on the pod for her camping dos and don’ts. We wanted to go deeper with her on the Channel Islands and their endemic foxes … beginning with the basics.
Nadya: We have this amazing national park right in our backyard, you know, along the coast of Central and Southern California. Series of eight islands that make up what's known as the Channel Islands. But I'm amazed at how many people actually haven't, you know, made that trip out there. And I think, you know, not understanding. That's just a boat right away. You know, just getting, what, like 17 miles off the channel.
Rae: Which is a ferry. You know, you don't have to own a boat, right?
Nadya: No, no. Right. Yeah, yeah. It's an amazing park.
Peter: So if you do that, you've taken the high speed catamaran, right? You show up, you have your tent in your backpack and the gear that you take to work almost every day when you're doing your research. What might one see when they arrive there?
Nadya: You know, it's funny because, when people go to these different wild places and, you know, talk about different animals that we work with, I never make a guarantee like, oh, you can go to a condor refuge because you're not guaranteed to see a condor. When people go to Santa Cruz, I tell them, you are guaranteed to see a fox. You will very likely see a fox as soon as you step off the boat. And typically that's exactly when people come back, like, oh yeah, I walked onto the pier and there was a fox right there. The ranger was telling me about how foxes get into backpacks, and sure enough, there was one trying to get into a bag, like that happens all the time.
Rae: So when we think of national parks, though, I mean, we as Americans, like when we think of national parks, we think, well, that's bad, right? Like the wildlife not being afraid of people and kind of being around, that's bad. But it's slightly different here.
Nadya: It is, and you know, one of the things that always kind of blows my mind about the Island fox is they're the apex predator. You know, something that is a foot tall and two feet long and about two and a half, if you're lucky, 6 pounds. So we're talking like the third, a third of the size of, you know, let's face it, most people's house cats. Yeah. They're the apex predators, you know, it's not a grizzly bear. It's not a polar bear. It's not a great white shark. It's not a lion. It's this tiny little housecat, you know, kind of wannabe. So. But they act like the apex predator, you know? They know that they don't have to, you know, look down to everyone. They're looking at us like, oh, who are you? Are you going to give me some food? Yeah.
Peter: This recent though, that the apex predator part of the problem was when ranchers started raising sheep on the islands. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Nadya: Oh, Peter, I'm glad that you brought that up, because you're absolutely right. The Channel Islands were actually used for ranching and farming, and that was really driven by a Civil War era need for wool. And so, you know, you had these ranches out on the island, you know, producing different kind of wool, very, you know, sheep heavy. And so when you had this livestock there, this golden eagle came in and said, awesome, we have this great new food source. Nobody's here keeping us out. Let's hang out here. Let's do some nesting. Let's, you know, kind of make this our home base. And unfortunately, unlike their cousins, the gray foxes on the mainland, the island foxes really didn't know that the golden eagles were a threat. They didn't know that they were going to be such a predator. You know, they're these little apex predators. They don't think that anything can get them. They have a little Napoleon complex going on. And unfortunately, the livestock actually trampled a lot of the habitat. So the island fox didn't have anywhere to hide. And so without anywhere to hide, the golden eagles were just taking them down left and right. And unfortunately, on islands like San Miguel and Santa Rosa, the level got down to a low of 15 individuals.
Peter: When people go out now and want to visit the Channel Islands. Any do's and don'ts if they're going to go. Want to go see the foxes?
Nadya: Yeah. And I mean definitely go visit the Channel Islands National Park. And just because you've seen one island, you've not seen them all. You know, just like the foxes, each island has their own unique personality. One of the biggest things that you can do, to really help island ecosystems, it's going to sound pretty simple, but it really is cleaning your boots. I actually learned to start a startling statistic recently that invasive species, plant species specifically, they only make up about 15% of the plant species that are out there on the islands, but they take up 75% of the land.
Rae: Oh, no.
Nadya: Yeah.
Rae: And we can make a change. We can make a difference. Yeah.
Nadya: By looking at your boots and taking out those grass seeds, making sure that you're scrubbing off any other potential seeds as you're walking through a field.
Rae: And this is on your way to the channel. And when you're on the boat, before you step onto that island, clean off your shoes.
Nadya: Yes. And honestly, cleaning your shoes is is good practice not only for the islands, but before you go into a stream, before you go into a cave, you know, it's amazing the kind of things that we can just carry with us from one place to another. So being in a in good practice of cleaning your boots, honestly, is one of the best things you can do for conservation.
Peter: Let's back up a little bit more about you. How did you get started in this field?
Nadya: Yeah. You know, it's the way that I was really introduced to, you know, fox conservation work has been, you know, doing this annual population monitoring. So what we would do is, you know, we would follow all the lead agency, whether that's National Park Service or the Nature Conservancy. And they would set out, what it's called grid lines. And so you get this kind of small mammal trap, which is basically like an elongated, cube. And it has, you know, a kind of a trapdoor that will come down and we'll kind of tuck it underneath a bush and we'll put, you know, the ever, enticing bowl of cat food.
Rae: Like, it's like a cage.
Nadya: Yeah, yeah. Basically.
Rae: Use them for bears. I hate the word trap. And so, yeah, that's different, but it's a it's a cage with a door.
Nadya: Yes. Exactly. No. Yes, exactly. And then we'll put some, some scent lure out, you know, smells like Logan Berry. And so you actually walk these grid lines, you know, every day for six, six nights, you know, what they're open for. And so it's actually kind of fun because one, it feels like a treasure hunt because you're watching your GPS, you know, like, okay, I got to find the GPS. And then you look in the trap like, all right, is the door open? Is it closed? Okay. It's closed. Is is there? I mean, there's a fox inside. And so, you know, first of all, you feel like you're on a treasure hunt and then, you know, you actually see the fox and, you know, I've, I've had some really kind of fun experiences, you know, especially the young ones. I just like to kind of cuddle on your lap for warmth. I had this one female last year. She was so sweet. She she stayed on my lap and she was a lactating female. So, you know, she had she had kids to get home to and we were kind of bonding over that. So yeah, I got to get home to my kid too, I feel. Yeah. But she actually kind of fell asleep on my lap and I actually, I, I, you know, let my hands off. She was just totally relaxed on my lap. And, you know, we actually we had to get going to the next trap. You know, we were burning daylight hours. So I actually had to pick her up and set her down. And even when I set her down, she was just fully relaxed and to kind of, you know, get up. Finally when I got up, she's like, oh, okay, I guess it is time to go back to the kids. And like, again, I feel. Yeah. So that I but it's a very sweet, very sweet romance.
Peter: I wanted to ask you that. But it must be kind of bittersweet. You study their habit patterns, you observe them and get the handle of some of them when they're being checked. Is it sort of bittersweet to let them know they're going to have to go back out in the wild and face the challenges of making it on their own?
Nadya: You know, and I, I think you touched on a really good point here, Peter, because, there is a very hard line that I straddle, you know, working in the field and working in a zoo because you see all these amazing things that you're capable of doing. You know, you have a we have an amazing vet team. We actually had an island fox that came in from San Nicolas, but that had a broken leg. And, you know, we were able to bring in an orthopedic surgeon that came in and, you know, the the friends of the Island Fox was able to come and fund the surgery, and we were able to just put so much into this one fox and she was she fully recovered. She's living her best life. And so on the one hand, you can see what you can do for an individual, but then you have to straddle that line on the wildlife side. And a broken leg for a fox or another wild animal is honestly probably a death sentence. And you just have to understand that, you know, that's wildlife. And there are certain evolutionary processes, you know, certain pressures that do push individuals that, you know, it makes a harder environment. But, you know, you got to think that in the long run, you know, it's for the good of the species. And that's where they are really supposed to be. I love the animals that we have in our care. I love that they can be ambassadors for their wild counterparts. Many of those animals, like pretty much all of them, probably not fare well in the wild. Their quality of life is going to be better in that captive setting. But honestly, being able to see an animal in the wild in its element, doing what it's supposed to do, like that's that's the feeling that you got to go on to. That's where you got to lean into.
Rae: When it comes to the Santa Barbara Zoo, something that stands out so much about the zoo, but also your involvement is how you are training future leaders. do you think that sets Santa Barbara Zoo apart in terms of already making sure we have a future workforce? I mean, in conservation, yeah.
Nadya: Well, I mean, I like to think so. You know, I like to think that we're really trying to be proactive because, you know, as we all know, it's a lot more costly to do reactive management. You know, proactive conservation is always going to be so much better if you can stop a species decline from the outset. So if we can, you know, kind of train conservationists from the beginning and show them, you know, this is the world that we want to live in. We want to, you know, we want to preserve biodiversity. Then we're we don't have to do that kind of reactive outreach, you know, when the critical time comes. And really, I mean, working with kids, we have an amazing outdoor preschool program.
Rae: That is wild to me.
Nadya: The first certified outdoor preschool.
Rae: A zoo with a preschool, I love it.
Nadya: I love it, you know, all the way through, you know, we have a zoo camp. My son actually goes to zoo camp, you know, every year, all the way through to a teen conservation club, which is teen lab. They are out there, you know, spreading awareness and outreach and actually involved. That is so important for us. I mean, that's we really, you know, we want to be out there doing field work, but we recognize that, you know, the next generation is really going to be the ones that have to take up that mantle. So let's train them in the right way.
Peter: Okay. You've heard those words, now you've inspired someone. Now they've decided I want to follow in Nadya’s footsteps. What would you recommend?
Nadya: Oh, man.
Rae: Yeah. How can people. Yeah. How can young people be like you? And, you know, the reason Peter's asking is some of us have these really topsy turvy paths towards our conservation careers, and some of us have these very linear paths.
Nadya: I was topsy turvy for sure. I mean, honestly, there was one point in college where I thought I was going to be in the FBI. I was seriously, I had the form. I was like half filled it out.
Rae: I could see it, and I was like, you're right.
Nadya: Let's, let's, let's steer, you know, this direction. So yeah, when you say topsy turvy, that was me for sure.
Rae: But maybe there is some advice there, right? Maybe sometimes that can be how we find our place is by trying a whole bunch of things that are outside of it.
Nadya: No, absolutely. And I you know, there's always part of me that thought like, oh, if I knew right away that I wanted to do conservation, I could have taken advantage of this and this and this and this. But I actually for me, I had to try other things to realize that I really always wanted to work with animals. And I knew that as a kid, you know, I was the one that carried around like the little stuffed dog that, you know, have a rip. And so I'd put a Band-Aid over it. And that was, you know, that was my my animal I had to take care of, but I needed to kind of venture out. Ultimately, I just tried a lot of things and just realized what felt right. I, you know, I was looking at, joining Fish and Wildlife Service. I was looking at different agency jobs, but it was when I started working, doing that keeper class at the LA zoo and then volunteering for Santa Barbara Zoo. I felt like I had found that middle. I felt like, oh, okay, this is where my home is.
Rae: Nadya, you've been emphasizing how conservation today and conservation careers today are so diverse, right? I mean, you could be a preschool teacher and be working in conservation, apparently at the Santa Barbara Zoo, you can be a veterinarian, you can be a boat operator, you know, and be a part of conservation.
Nadya: So and that's, that's the, you know, one message I really like when I say conservation collaboration, it's not only different organizations and partnerships that that can work together collaboratively to move that needle, but even within our zoo community itself, I mean, every single department has been involved
Rae: What I'm hearing from you is that we're all part of the same community with these shared goals, and we all bring our individual skill sets to conservation. And some of us stumble into it and some of us start late, and some of us, you know, are born knowing what we want to do. But at the end of the day, we have these successes of Channel Island fox episode of Wild Kingdom. The fact that you're here with us, I mean, it's all representing these successes that are possible and the energy that we all have for it.
Peter: Yeah. So thanks so much for all you do for the parks.
Nadya: Yeah, happy to do it.
Peter: And the next generation of wildlife conservationists that you're training.
Rae: You know what’s interesting peter I remember kind of feeling like I was coming back to reality when we stepped on the boat to leave the island and go back to the mainland. And it’s because we had kind of been on our own for several days you know away from the public away from the public part of the island and when we took the boat back I mean we were on the boat that any one can take. And so it was like we went from this very remote very private experience where it was just us on the island to boarding the boat with a whole bunch of happy folks who had been camping on the national park side and then going back to mainland California. It was this really interesting kind of reintegration back into society.
Peter: Yeah it was an amazing trip I was reluctant to leave I was sorry we had to leave I would’ve loved to have stayed a few more days to explore the rest of the island.
Rae: I’ve got to say, Peter, we have such a wonderful job. Visiting these amazing places and meeting these absolute heroes of the conservation world. We hear a lot about how humans affect places without considering their impact on the environment and the animals that call it home. But Nadya’s work is an example of the determination and dedication it takes to truly protect the wild.
Nadya: You know, sometimes you can get caught up with the doom and gloom of media headlines. But it's so important to know that you have lights at the end of the tunnel. Know that you can move the needle in the right direction. It's one of those things where you see a species that might be going down and you can say, no, we can reverse that. We've done it before. We can do it again.
Peter: The Channel Islands are home to plants and animals, like the Channel Island fox, that exist nowhere else on the planet. If we take the necessary steps today we can ensure magical moments in the wild kingdom for future generations.
Rae: Join us next week on the podcast when we talk to Molly Alves. Molly’s work with the Tulalip Beaver project in Washington State is fascinating. By relocating animals thought to be a nuisance she not only helped the community, but in turn helped struggling populations of salmon.
[PREVIEW TO NEXT PODCAST]
Molly: Honestly my favorite part of the whole day was seeing Rae’s face when we got to the trap site and saw that we had captured a beaver and I knew that it was the first beaver she had ever seen and gotten a chance to interact with. I just love that excitement.
Rae: That’s next time on Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom The Podcast
[OUTRO]
Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom The Podcast is a production of Pineapple Street Studios and Mutual of Omaha.
Our Senior Producer is Stephen Key
Producers are Xandra Ellin and Jenny Van Soelen.
Associate Producer is Lisa Cerda.
Editor is Darby Maloney.
Executive Producers are Bari Finkel, Gabrielle Lewis, and Jen Wulf.
Pineapple’s Head of Sound & Engineering is Raj Makhija. Senior Audio Engineers are Marina Paiz, Davy Sumner, Javi Cruces, and Pedro Alvira. Additional engineering by Rob Miller and Jason Richards.
This Episode was mixed by Davy Sumner.
Production Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound and Hearst Media Production Group.
Episode Clips courtesy of Hearst Media Production Group.
Fact checking by Justine Daum.
Marketing and Promotion by Emily Poeschl.
This podcast is hosted by me, Dr. Rae Wynn Grant
And me, Peter Gros.
Special thanks to Katelyn Williams, Sophie Radmilovich, and Stephanie Diaz
Today’s episode is based on the Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom series created by Don Meier.
Our next episode will be out in a week. Make sure to listen on the Audacy app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
