Peter: This is such an interesting episode. It focuses on the city of Los Angeles. Probably the most unlikely location for a podcast about wildlife.
[News archival montage begins]
LAist Reporter: Another summer of public outcry over coyotes.
KCAL Reporter: It happened again, a mountain lion sighting in a Sierra Madre neighborhood. It was lurking in someone’s yard…
KCRW Reporter: More urban development are pushing snakes out of their natural habitats, and they are slithering closer to us now.
[News archival montage ends]
Dr. Rae: The built environment in cities like LA pose real threats to urban wildlife, and they demand that we think about coexistence in some new ways. Today on the show, how one mountain lion found right in the middle of Los Angeles inspired a whole movement. I'm wildlife ecologist Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant.
Peter: And I'm wildlife expert and educator Peter Gros, and this is Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom, the podcast Episode 2: The Most Famous Mountain Lion in the World.
[THEME MUSIC IN]
Peter: There are so many things that affect wildlife because of human development. In some cases, they learn to avoid certain areas, but the busy freeways of California are hard to ignore.
Dr. Rae: How do we expect wild animals to live safely when we've got all this infrastructure? It can be good for our productivity, but what we really want is something that's good for the planet.
[MUSIC IN]
Peter: The Wallis Annenberg Wildlife Crossing is a narrow bridge that will help wild animals safely cross over a massive L.A. freeway. Right now, because of the intricate system of roads. Wildlife is either trapped on one side, or they risk death trying to run across ten lanes of traffic.
Dr. Rae: As if they even could dodge traffic.
Peter: Seriously.
Dr. Rae: This bridge has been in development for years and has backers from all over, public and private funds. About 6000 people from all over the world have contributed to pay for it.
Peter: Local star-studded backers include Barbra Streisand, Leonardo DiCaprio, and the philanthropist Wallis Annenberg. It was all inspired by the unlikely feline celebrity and his unofficial spokesperson, Beth Pratt.
Beth Pratt: Peter! Good to see you again.
Peter: You too. How are you?
Beth Pratt: And there's Rae, who I finally got to meet. I was so fangirling being able to finally meet her at a festival.
Dr. Rae: It was mutual.
Peter: Beth works for the National Wildlife Federation. She and I recorded a segment together about the Wildlife Crossing for Wild Kingdom Protecting the Wild. I learned then about her love of the mountain lion, known as P-22.
Dr. Rae: P-22’s existence in LA’s huge Griffith Park– which is flanked by two major highways – was the inspiration for the Wildlife Crossing. Sadly, though, he was euthanized in December 2023 when a number of health conditions – including apparent injuries from being hit by a car– unfortunately cut his life short, but his death only served to prove the importance of this wildlife crossing more than ever.
[MUSIC OUT]
Peter: Well, Beth, it's great to see you again. If I remember correctly, last time we were together, we were standing next to a busy freeway in the fog. And you were talking about creating a wildlife overpass. How's that coming?
Beth Pratt: Yeah, yeah. It's great to see you, too, again Peter and we were. I was pointing to one of the busiest freeways in the world where a wildlife crossing was going to go. But now, if we were standing in that same spot, you would actually see the wildlife crossing being built. And it's really both exciting and very emotional for me. I look at that site and just think how– what this construction site, which my colleague calls the world's most hopeful construction site. You know, usually, I say this environmentalist don't like bulldozers, right? But we do now. It's being built. I mean, it is being built. And that, to me, means such a great future for wildlife. So, a great update from when we last met.
Peter: So, it's coming along nicely. You've got lots of support. What is your big hope for it now when it's completed?
Beth Pratt: We are making great progress. And in fact, we just lowered some of the first girders, which are the support structures, horizontally. So it's finally starting to look like a bridge. But to do that, we had to close the freeway for the first time. Now closing one of the world's busiest freeways. Boy! Right?
Dr. Rae: Did you do that already? Did the freeway close? Because I just have this idea that there would be this, you know, huge headline in the paper, you know, like, how dare conservationists close 101? Did that already happen? And, you know, with no negative press?
Beth Pratt: It happened. It is happening. And even the conservative talk shows I did when we announced we were closing half the freeway, we're like, this is so hopeful. This is great. I mean, we called it closure for cougars. And just the outpouring of emotion. Now people are driving by it, and even though their nightly it's only closed at night, commute gets disrupted a little bit. They're not complaining about it. They're posting photos of driving by it and saying, oh, this is going to mean the mountain lions survive. So again, it's just a testament, I think, to even in urban areas, people want to help wildlife that yeah, I don't think we got one complaint.
Dr. Rae: Beth, can you describe to us – for anyone who does not drive on the 101 freeway, you know where exactly it is? And then, you know, I bet a lot of people kind of assume that great, there's going to be a bridge over the highway just for wild animals. So that's how they're going to cross back and forth. But there might also be curious people saying, like, what if the animals have been trying to cross the actual highway for all this time? What's going to make them know that that crossing is there?
Beth Pratt: Yeah, I always joke when people ask that, well, we're just going to put up a sign Wildlife Crossing this way, you know [Laughs]
Dr. Rae: Put it on Google Maps.
Beth Pratt Yeah, put it on Google Maps, and you know that it'll get them there. No. You know, it's such a great question. First of all, what's what's really exciting about this? Wildlife crossings are nothing new, but they're all– most of them are in remote areas. And so, you now have wildlife crossings can be visible, the 300 to 400,000 people a day driving under it. And I love that. That in itself is an educational message. but it's on the 101 freeway. It's about, about 35 miles west of LA and the only place on the entire 101 where there is protected space on both sides. And that's important for a wildlife crossing. But this, yeah, this site was not picked out of a hat.
The National Park Service has been GPS-collaring animals for decades. So, yeah, how do they use it? Well, we know again from the decades of wildlife crossing science of things we can do to ensure they get there. One is what we call exclusionary fencing. So, you fence off their options for a couple of miles. There's no other place they can cross, uh landscaping.
Dr. Rae: It naturally kind of funnels them to exactly the only spot.
Beth Pratt: Exactly, yeah, we're putting sound and light barriers up, which is something a lot of other crossings don't need to do because they're very rural. But we have the sound of 300,000 cars. That's a deterrent light, you know, headlights and stuff. But I will say the best, you know, these crossings are 97% successful or up to where they go in. The wildlife themselves, like wildlife, communicate they do. Word gets out in the animal world. Some places, it takes them a while to find it.
Other places, like there's these crossings up in Snoqualmie Pass in Washington, a series of them. The deer started trying to use them before it was even finished. Wildlife like us don't want to cross our roads. It's that they usually don't have options. So, I think the animals themselves are pretty smart, and we'll figure it out as well. But we do have these tools to help them.
Dr. Rae: You know, I have to say something that surprised me. Maybe it shouldn't have, but when I became a wildlife researcher, at one point, I was working in East Africa, and I was working with a team, and all of the Lions, African Lions that we're working with got a name. And I was so excited cause I'm like, oh, we get to name these lions. How awesome is that?
And I realized quickly after that that, like, we don't really give them a name. We give them a code. And so that brings us to P-22. P-22 is iconic, but not everyone exactly who's listening knows who P-22 is. So, Beth, you have been the spokesperson for a whole movement based on an animal with a code name P-22. Who is this animal?
Beth Pratt: It's a great way. I actually kind of feel like his agent. And, you know, I was always grateful he didn't hold it against me for, you know, pitching his name attached to a cause. But, yeah, for those who don't know who he is, he is, I do call him the Brad Pitt of the Cougar world, but I, like everybody else, read the story of P22 in the L.A.
Times in August of 2012, and at the time, I was working on as part of my job with the National Wildlife Federation, a book about California wildlife. And I was doing my– what I had done for 30 years, working on wildlife projects in areas like Yosemite, or again, what we would think of as more traditional wildlife areas. And I read it and was like, there's no way that's true. There's no way there's a mountain line in LA. And yeah, for those who aren't familiar with it, Griffith Park, it's where the Hollywood sign is. It's where the observatory is.
I mean, I remember my first visit to Griffith Park. I had not been there before learning of the P22 story in 2012. And I just remember, oh my God, there are people playing golf and celebrities walking their dogs. This cat should not be here. But then I had one of those life-changing moments thinking, well, what choice does he have? And indeed, if anybody should be here, it should be him. You know, this is his home. And when he when I asked at the end of the day.
Well, Jeff, I'm just so inspired. But I'm so blown away. These mountain lines are making it like I want to do something to help, you know, give them a chance. What? How can I help with my work through the National Wildlife Federation? He's like, well, there's this little wildlife crossing we're trying to get built, and, you know, silly me, sure, how hard can it be? Not knowing it'd be 13 years of my life and a $100 million project, but it just became a moral imperative. Like, not on my watch. Like, okay, we have a solution, how can we not do this? So that's how I became, P-22’s biggest advocate.
Peter: And what you've done with your campaign? You've mobilized this campaign by identifying sort of that famous picture of that mountain lion standing in front of the Hollywood sign. That picture created an image of a cat that is not some sort of a top–of–the–food chain predator living in the neighborhood. It's a cat that people wanted to save. And you were able to get so much support behind it, and you changed the image of mountain lions. And how did you mobilize so much energy and press, and commitment from people in the L.A. area?
Beth Pratt: For me, after hearing the story of P22 and what he faced from the National Park Service biologist and putting myself in his shoes or paws or whatever you want to call it, and looking at what he was facing, and his other cats were facing. And then knowing we could do something, it just kind of became a moral imperative.
Dr. Rae: And what was he facing, Beth? What were some of the things that he was facing? Because Griffith Park is a cool spot, but is it maybe not so cool for mountain lions?
Beth Pratt: Yeah, I think, you know, it's appropriate for mountain lions in that, you know, why not, right? It's got a wilderness area, but it's it's an island, right? So, it's not that he shouldn't be there, but he shouldn't be trapped there and unable to come and go. And I think once I learned if we didn't do something P-22 and all his relatives would disappear from the Santa Monica mountains, you would no longer have mountain lions there. It just became a not on my watch thing. And I think it was just stubbornness on my part to just never give up, never stop being their spokesperson. And then, of course, we had P-22, himself.
You know, it was kind of like being Brad Pitt's agent, it ain’t hard, right? It was not hard, right? Once people saw that iconic photo, you talked about Peter, which is the Steve Winter Hollywood sign. I mean, the picture did tell a thousand words. You know, most people are used to seeing a mountain lion in the middle of a pristine, natural setting. And that's what we're conditioned to think where wildlife should be.
And here was this mountain lion, you know, one of the holdovers of the last ice age, standing in front of the symbol of our age, really, the Hollywood sign. And it just, I think it made people reconsider and think differently about wildlife, not just in LA, but elsewhere.
Dr. Rae: And you'd probably argue that historically, you know, close to 100% of the state of California was mountain lion habitat, right?
Beth Pratt: Exactly
Dr. Rae: And so, these, you know, these animals evolved before there were highways and big cities kind of bisecting their habitat.
Beth Pratt: Yeah. I mean, mountain lions, they were one of the most widely distributed land animals in the world until they were hunted out because they can live anywhere desert, mountain, ocean. If there are deer, there are mountain lions. So, California, I always tell people, you know, we actually get asked a lot, well, have you tracked one in our area? Well, it doesn't matter because it's probably one there. You know, where there can be mountain lions. They are there, even, and I think that they've always been there. It's just we didn't have ring cameras and, you know, security cameras.
Dr. Rae: Yeah, Beth, you know, one of my questions for you is, you know, you do so much communicating. What language do you use to teach people how to be safe or how to feel, you know, to ease any concerns? What do you like to tell folks?
Beth Pratt: Yeah, how do you communicate about this? First, I live in California, and California voted in 1990. And it has such a great bipartisan history. Ronald Reagan was involved, Jimmy Stewart, to protect mountain lions. And this was voted by a ballot measure that people valued mountain lions and wanted them to be, especially protected species because they valued them beyond just, you know, our use of them, right?
So we already had this sort of this base to start with when P-22 showed up, that, you know, Californians loved their mountain lions, and he shows up, you know, finally, the announcement gets out, and yeah, there was certainly some that were like, oh my God, a mountain lion in Griffith Park? But the overwhelming majority, and this stayed consistent through his life, were like, wow, a mountain lion, what? Amazing. We live among a mountain lion? But having said that, yeah, I still we took very seriously our responsibility to give people who didn't know the tools to coexist.
And I think P-22, himself was the best ambassador in that where he really showed which, you know, those of us who work in conservation, like those of us here, knew that these guys are not sitting in the woods ready to jump out at us. In fact, one of my favorite camera footages of P-22, which I used in a lot of presentations to your question about how do you talk about this, you just show the reality. There was one of P-22s, for some reason, it was like 5 a.m. or 6 a.m. The camera, he's he's right there in front of the camera at snapping photos of him. And then you see him move, and then a jogger goes by. That jogger had no idea that he was running about ten feet from a mountain lion.
But, you know, using that footage to show these mountain lions, for the most part, want nothing to do with us. But I think it is about. You know, just showing people the reality of what it means to live with a mountain lion or, or a ground squirrel, you know, or a coyote, what it is. And, you know, I can cite statistics all day. I mean, we know we live in a world where facts sometimes don't really resonate as well. And, you know, the statistics are you will be more likely to be killed by your step ladder than a mountain lion.
But I can say that, and it's still not going to resonate. But being able to show the example of P-22 for ten years who lived in a park that gets, I've seen varied estimates, but between 10 and 30 million people visiting every year, and that is surrounded by houses and, you know, literally P-22 walk down Sunset Boulevard at one point, right?
Dr. Rae: Oh my Gosh, I didn't know that.
Beth Pratt: Yeah. So, you know, he lived among people just fine. And so, I think it was more the story we could tell, not the throwing stats at people, that you were safe. It was the story we could tell with P-22, who he became an ambassador for his kind, to show that coexistence is absolutely possible.
Dr. Rae: And a little bit, I mean, you're making such a great point, Beth, that even a little bit helps, right? So, we don't need to have areas that are just for people and areas that are just for animals, but really be able to make human and wildlife areas available for both in a safe way. And that's what you and your team do day in and day out.
Beth Pratt No, I think that's such an important point. Again, we need protected areas, but I don't know when it happened. Maybe Peter, Rae, you know? like when did it become wrong for people and wildlife to live together? Because it just seems like such a stupid notion right now, right? Of course, we need to live together. And yeah, I'm not advocating for everybody to have a mountain lion in their backyard, but there's no reason mountain lions can't move through your space.
And so yeah, sharing the space. I think we need to, you know, that needs to be more normalized. And as you said, Rae, it doesn't need to be perfect when you look at condors using, you know, satellite towers to roost when you look at, you know, P-22 hunting under the Hollywood sign, they are trying to make it work.
One of my favorites is the Bakersfield, these endangered Kit Foxes. A golf course was a really good habitat for them. And the golf course instead of, like, a lot of them would vanish from, like all right, let's they even put, like, a Kit Fox score on their card. And even though these foxes would steal golf balls, they ended up installing dens that they could use.
So, it doesn't have to be perfect. The wildlife's trying. We just need to kind of meet them halfway. And I think it's us who are the problem. The wildlife, P-22, is not in Griffith Park thinking, oh, I want to meet somebody. He wasn't. He was living his life. So, I think it's us who usually have the hangup, not, not the wildlife.
[MUSIC IN]
Peter: Beth’s commitment to P-22 and the plight of mountain lions has dominated her recent career, but she can trace her concern for wildlife to her early childhood.
[MUSIC OUT]
Beth Pratt: I've always been a big cat fan, and I direct that right back to Wild Kingdom. I remember watching the episode on Cheetahs, and as a little girl, I'd pretend to be a cheetah and run fast. So yeah, there's always been that connection to me, to the wild world. Since I was a little girl. I grew up in a suburb of Boston called Garden City, interestingly enough. But it was on an old landfill, and we had we had banished wildlife.
Like when I was growing up, there was, you know, the best wildlife I could, you know, get or the biggest was birds. My mother fed the birds, frogs, turtles, some snakes. That's about it. We didn't even have deer or coyotes. Now, if you go back there now, there are deer and coyotes, so they're coming back. But at that point, this was the early 70s. We had banished it. But I still love my backyard wildlife. My mom says, you know, I would collect frogs in buckets and name them George and then release them at night to their families.
I had these woods that I played in, and I just loved being there with all the little creatures. And one day, a For Sale sign went up, and I went home. I think I was about six years old and asked my mom what that meant, and she said that meant they were going to build homes there. And I, you know, I, you know, was the first time as a, you know, a little girl. I realize that wildlife, the impermanence that they were vulnerable, right?
I still remember that feeling of wow, dread, or whatever that something could happen to them. So I went around the neighborhood and raised some money. I think I raised about $5, and I called the number on the real estate sign. And you can guess how this one ends. Not well, but I think that's when I became a wildlife conservationist, knowing that they, in realizing they needed a voice because they didn't have one. But most of my career, you know, with the mountain lions or, you know, you name it, I mean, I kind of love all wildlife.
You ask me what my favorite species is, it would probably depend on the day, but mountain lions definitely are up there. But it's been in these more what we'd think traditional wild areas, right? Like, I worked in Yosemite for a decade and still live outside the park. I worked in Yellowstone, and that's when I was a girl. That's where I wanted to go and work, to help the environment and wildlife.
But it really was this remarkable animal, P-22, and his whole kin who are making a living in the most improbable of places, the L.A. area, that changed the course of my career towards: hey, urban wildlife, we need to be thinking about that.
Peter: All three of us, I think, have sort of the best jobs in the world.
Beth Pratt: Yeah. I'd agree [Laughs]
Peter: What do you tell young people now that you're known for? What you've done with P-22, if they want to follow in your footsteps?
Beth Pratt: Yeah, you know, I tell them: don't think you have to have it all figured out. I didn't. I. I've had a variety of jobs. Some in financial management. I am a biology field undergrad, but I have an MBA with a minor in marketing. So, you know, you can make a difference for wildlife by being an accountant or
Dr. Rae: Construction worker
Beth Pratt: Or a construction worker. Look at all these construction workers who are just so proud of what they're doing. So, it don't get too caught up in the what, but just, you know, you can contribute in a variety of ways.
The other thing I tell people, I'm very realistic, and I think, you know, it looks fun because that is my job to make it look fun. But it's a lot of work like you do have to. It is, I think we all know, a career advocating for wildlife or doing wildlife research is a lot of work. Don't feel like you're going to get rich, you know, so just know that it's a commitment, and it's okay if that's not for you, then, you know, go get a job that may pay better. And then you can donate. And then you are you are plugged in as well.
But just know you got to be in for the long haul too. It's been, you know, this crossing itself 13 years and counting of my life. And although I wouldn't trade anything that still requires a lot of sacrifice, you know, my parents know, the only time they can see me is to show up at an event, right? So yeah, I just I do like to stress that. That it's not easy, but it's worth it.
[MUSIC IN]
Dr. Rae: Beth, you have just been an incredible guest. We are so lucky. I am extra lucky because I didn't get to film with you and Peter when you did this incredibly important episode, so chatting with you about it today just has been awesome.
Peter: Yes, indeed. Thank you so much and I look forward to us coming back and filming. When you cut the ribbon and let the first wildlife start to cross.
Dr. Rae: Peter, you and I have known about the construction of this overpass for a while, and we're up and down the 101 freeway in and out of LA for work. But just yesterday, I was driving down that freeway, and I actually took a picture of the construction of the overpass. And it's all because Beth really got me jazzed about it.
Peter: I can't wait to see the first camera traps of wildlife making its way across the freeway, with the traffic passing down below.
Dr. Rae: Oh my gosh, that will be a day to celebrate! I really believe that Beth's zest for this wildlife crossing and for public education around urban wildlife is just what we need right now. If we're all going to be able to coexist.
Peter: And, you know, part of coexistence is knowledge, right? We need experts like Beth to help us know what to do if we encounter a mountain lion in the real world.
Dr. Rae: So, if you were to ever encounter a mountain lion, we have some tips for you to stay safe. First of all, don't run. Mountain lions can run up to 50mph. Me personally, I can run about 2 or 3 miles an hour. So, the best thing to do is to just move slowly.
Peter: The other thing to keep in mind is the mountain lion wants to have nothing to do with you, so make a path for it, leave the area and don't block it so it can keep on moving away from you.
Dr. Rae: You're going to want to back away slowly because mountain lions are predators. They're really used to running after their prey, and prey think of like maybe a rabbit or a deer. They are runners. So, if you don't run away and you just back away slowly, it'll signal that you are not anything it could eat.
Peter: Put your hands up. Speak loudly. Make yourself look large. Hold your coat up over your head and stand your ground.
Dr. Rae: And remember, most people who encounter mountain lions remain safe. You'll probably be okay. And you'll have a pretty decent story to tell.
Peter: And a wonderful memory and a privilege to be able to actually see a mountain lion in the wild.
[MUSIC OUT]
Peter: As cities continue to sprawl and impact wildlife and their habitats. It's crucial that we find ways to go beyond just coexisting. Our legacy should be as protectors and stewards of this beautiful place we call home. If we safeguard wildlife today, we can ensure magical moments in the wild kingdom for future generations.
Beth Pratt: It doesn't have to be perfect. The wildlife's trying. We just need to kind of meet them halfway. And I think it's us who are the problem, not the wildlife.
Dr. Rae: Join us next week on the podcast, when we learn the great lengths, science is going through to save the Black-footed ferrets of Wyoming.
Jeff Ewelt: They were able to actually utilize the genes of that ferret to clone, essentially, create a replica of that ferret in a live animal who we saw. It was amazing!
Dr. Rae: That's next time on Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom, the podcast.
[CREDITS]
Peter: Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom the Podcast is a production of Pineapple Street Studios and Mutual of Omaha.
Dr. Rae: Our Senior Producer is Stephen Key
Producers are Xandra Ellin (zandra - ellen) and Jenny Van Soelen (Van Sole Len)
Associate Producer is Lisa Cerda. (sayer-da)
Editor is Darby Maloney.
Executive Producers are Bari (Barry) Finkel, Gabrielle (gob-rielle) Lewis, and Jen Wulf (Wolf).
Pineapple’s Head of Sound & Engineering is Raj Makhija (MAky-jah). Senior Audio Engineers are Marina Paiz (pie - eez), Davy Sumner, Javi Cruces (crew-says), and Pedro Alvira (all-vee-rah). Additional engineering by Rob Miller and Jason Richards.
This Episode was mixed by Davy Sumner.
Peter: Production Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound and Hearst Media Production Group.
Dr. Rae: Episode Clips courtesy of Hearst Media Production Group.
Fact checking by Justine Daum (Dom).
Marketing and Promotion by Emily Poeschl. (Pay-shl) Shill
This podcast is hosted by me, Dr. Rae Wynn Grant
Peter: And me, Peter Gros.
Special thanks to Katelyn Williams, Sophie Radmilovich, and Stephanie Diaz
Dr. Rae: Today’s episode is based on the Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom series created by Don Meier (My-er). Our next episode will be out in a week.
Peter: Make sure to listen on the Audacy app or wherever you get your podcasts.
